I had a very interesting conversation with Ivan over Skype today. I had suggested that I might be able to help out with the Face2012 website and he was keen to talk about it. This was my first time talking with him, and I really enjoyed it. I was attracted to this community because I perceived that his thinking about coming events is very similar to mine, and after talking with him that sense has been reinforced. I think he's a very sharp guy and he's clearly dedicated to helping people get prepared.

We talked about a lot of things, including the recent changes to the Face2012 website and ways to improve it. He knows that a lot of people are unhappy about the changes, and said that he wasn't totally satisfied with the solution that he and Julez came up with either.

A point that I made is that if this site is ever going to fulfill it's potential for helping people find others to connect with, it needs to grow to a much larger scale so people can find the right people. And one thing that will really help it grow is to have forum postings available on the home page, so more people will get more engaged.

But the problem he said he had with the forums being so public was that all the petty bickering and off-topic posts were just making the community look really ridiculous. And since this site is so connected to Timeline2012 and Project Tristar, which are really his primary projects, he was concerned that this site would reflect poorly on those projects.

I think that's a pretty valid concern. I came on just after certain people were kicked off the site, so I haven't seen much of the negativity that prompted the changes, but by all accounts it sounds like it was pretty nasty. So I can understand him feeling the need to change things.

Now my first thought was that the site needs more moderation, and tools to help people rate and filter posts. But there are a couple problems with that. One is that that would take some significant development--more than I really have time to do. And Ivan doesn't want to spend money on this website beyond the hosting fees and investment he's already made.

But the other factor is that Ivan doesn't want to have any form of moderation on the forum, as he considers that a form of control that would inevitably lead the community in the wrong direction. Personally, I find it ironic that his attempts to avoid exerting control has actually lead to a lot of people feeling like he *is* being controlling. At any rate, I respect his choice not to want to build moderation into the system. I guess where he's coming from is, if we can't keep our discussions civil and productive about this of all topics without moderation, well...

So anyway, we kicked around several ideas for ways to make the website more engaging to new visitors and just more user-friendly in general, and I think we can make things better. I really hope we can keep this thing going and growing. I told Ivan that I was actually in the process of setting up a similar community platform a couple years ago, but it was just too big of a project. So I'm very keen on seeing if I can help this one take off.

And I totally agree with Ivan that these forums should be used more for productive networking and problem solving that will help us all be prepared for what's to come, and not so much as a pedestal for drama queens (oops, did I just say that?!) to heap abuse on each other.

Anyway, let me know what you think.

Edited by Dane Christensen, 1 year(s) ago

Dane we all understand Ivan's goals!! And his purpose for the recent changes. It was however one sided!! Steff (one of the banned ones) was always a wealth of information!! So much so I thought he was lying about all of his progress until he posted pictures and started a diary of sorts on his profile. Yes he was immature in some aspects but a loving individual that really only stuck up for himself!! And yes it was sometimes a bickering mess but the ones who BASHED him are still allowed to be on here!! That PO'd lots of people including myself!! Steff would be a bonus to ANY community and part of the WHOLE 2012 thing, tolerance is of the utmost importance!! I am not finding any fault with you PLEASE don't get me wrong!! I even had arguments with Steff and found him to be sometimes arrogant but we, well most of us valued his input!! Steff we know you are watching, please email me at perkinshilltopfarm@yahoo.com!!
Yes this site is intended to help people prepare for what is to come but in the process there are differing opinions and my opinion is no one should be banned, let the community shun or ignore what is trivial and unnecessary! I understand how it may look to a new person also but feel it has been handled wrong.
And personally yes I have been called a drama queen of sorts as I stir things up and am very active in the site as I care deeply for my fellow humans!! Not to mention can be long winded and off topic, Ivan told me so himself. But when it comes to something as drastic as what we face there are so many different ways to look at things it can be taken wrong.
I like the fact that now we are only moderated by Michael and we all know Michael will warn someone before totally banning them! At least I hope!! And other than a pedophile posting pics what could be irrelevant about events to come? It all comes full circle to everyone and the beast doesn't show his identity until it's time....

The forum was very unproductive. I have no idea who could miss it.
The important thing is that this initiative be online, for the simple reason that it is the only one there is...
Well, anyway, after searching the net via Google it was all i could find. I tried all kinds of searches and there's really nothing out there to be found (via Google). So kudos to Ivan for putting this out there and sticking to his guns/principles.

The only way to make it possible for people online to find credible communities is to have a global online hub and the only way for that hub to work is for it to be neutral. Forums are never neutral because they always get overrun by a few elite posters and the forum and the goal of FACE2012 just didn't mesh. No surprise that the forum didn't work out for anyone who's ever had any forum experience and understands why this website is so important.

Edited by , 1 year(s) ago

Becky said:
"... Steff would be a bonus to ANY community and part of the WHOLE 2012 thing..."

You are right Becky, my opinion is that Steff is really a wealth of information and a very important piece of this 2012 puzzle, he must get brought back! Bickerings and fightings are not the best alternatives and may become disruptive (spiritually, especially) depending on the gravity of those acts, but are Human and it's OK to exist. Without disagreements of opinions (Let that child out! Even if you are 75! Or 122 in Michaels' Freeforall community?) and ideas we cannot grow or find the right answer. Differences of opinions challenge our minds to think and analyse the correctness of our knowledge on a subject, it acts like a "double-check" type of thing and many times we end up realizing we did miss something along the way when we thought we were all this time so right! And it works the same way for both parties. Disagreeing is alright. Even bickering, as long as all is done within that necessary balance, with mutual respect and even humility. Respecting the differences should be the word mainly making sure we never and intentionally try to degrade one's soul. It this is the case, then it's criminal. I guess that everybody must already know what I said in here but the conclusion is, let's get Steff back, and hoping that he will want to be back...Cheers!

Edited by * Laroque*, 1 year(s) ago

Guess I am still unsure why so many think Steff was 'banned'. Is this a fact or an assumption? Maybe he chose to leave, or even asked to be taken off, or when approached about that whole negative affair that was going on for a while -- the 'other' person some of you are saying was 'worse' than steff, apologized and complied to moderator request, whereas Steff would not.
Point is.... unless Steff or Ivan told you personally that Steff was banned from the sight, I don't believe it should be put out that way.
I don't know why Steff's posts disappeared, and would hesitate to assume he was banned.... thats all.

he was banned

People were banned...lol...and I'm not, wow. And I tried so hard to be that little irritation in "someones" throat, I guess I must of just been a tickle...lol

Steff and I had many, many (many), engagements, most were not of a positive nature (as I'm certain most here are aware). In the end regardless of our differences in opinion, I understood him and have empathy for his souls path in this life. Blessed be your journey Steff.

As for the conversation with Ivan, I will remain silent (this time) lol I've made my position clear enough, in my opinion.

If Steff comes back on here and proceeds to call me names, like he did before, such as fnkng crazy and a conspiracy nut, well, I'm outta here, not waiting for Michael to do something, it ' snot worth it in my life to sit through that kinda of ridiculous behavior. If this is not a forum for introducing relevant topics to 2012 and having discussion without sophmoric criticisms then, i don't need it and I can go elsewhere. Personally I think what Steff did to those two people by having them thrown in jail and having the girl lose her job and then gloating over it tells me all I need to know about him. Would not be in a community with him. Couldn't trust him and foresee problems between him and others wherever he goes, at least until he learns humbleness. He angered people, on purpose. He called Arnold a pervert when Arnold hadn't said or done a thing to anger anyone. He had only described his community as being polygamist. That's it and for that Arnold was called a pervert by Steff. I would not welcome that kind of posting again. But that's OK, It's more ya'lls forum than it is mine and I don't mind leaving. BTW. Steff said solar was a crock and his opinion was to build a wind mill. Not a wind turbine but a wind mill. So, I wonder about that. Solar panels have been serving me very well for almost a year and I have learned a lot about them and how to build up a system. It can be very inexpensive and simple as well. Then again, there are other ways that are just fine. Build a wind mill, if you live where there is dependable wind and you have the help, materials and know how. Or you may be able to take advantage of water force or use donkeys to run a mill of sorts. Maybe some hamster is a treadmill. Or you could turn on a crank or hook up a bicycle and get your exercise that way. Or you could grow crops for alchohol production. or you could produce methane from your waste.
No name calling and we should all be polite and considerate at least as much as if we were face to face and the other was a bad *** ex green beret, or we were in the presence of others and they were observing our discourse. Would anyone want to be thought to be an arrogant, obnoxious, rude person? I sure wouldn't. Before you post, think about it. IF you disagree keep it to yourself. Give others the benefit of feeling free to post without worry of someone trying to make you feel stupid, or worse, insulting you for your beliefs or opinions of things. There are things about which no one knows anything, for sure, and thoughts and opinions are just conjecture. It's important for people to feel as though they were among friends, all equal. That way they will contribute without hesitation, hence a free flow of thought or brain storming. When someone spoils it with a critical know it all attitude, that my friends is a drag on the community. IMO.

I love everyone in here but was genuinely fond of Steff (No, I'm not a "fag-hag", a word I first learned here in this forum with Steff himself...LOL!). He was just being himself and maybe went "overboard" sometimes. I'm sure he did not mean to hurt anyone, although he may have done it, but here it is, INTENTION is what must be highly taken into consideration when it comes to judgement, and for that, Steff passes, as there was none, he was actually a very impulsive (just like a child) and expontaneous spirited dude, he had a lot of love to share, in his unique personality and deserves to be remembered as such. Peace to all.

On forums you have to grow a little thicker skin and accept the fact that at different times people will say things that are not true and could be seen as a personal attack. My thought is don't take it personal, If it gets really out of hand then we will do something about it. Steff was just himself and like laroque said got a little overboard, when you result to name calling and personal attacks then you have lost the discussion.
Always be quick to apologies and quick to forgive, express freely and let others do the same, your freedom of speech ends where others begin.

peace out 2012 freeforall